Curse

Daesu · Nov 13, 2009, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Considering there is no way in pve to earn balth faction or reward points the zkey/zchest has to be categorized as a pvp mechanic. The fact that zkeys can be traded has muddied the waters a bit, but nevertheless they are generated by pvp. My point was that Patrick did have a huge impact on the game due to the implementation of the zchest and was not as impotent as others would portray. He was not in position long enough as others have pointed out to address many issues , but he did do something.

They are NOT pvp features. How do zkeys/zchests make the quality of PvP better? Explain that.

Just because PvEers started to farm RA more often because of zkeys/zchests doesn't make the quality of GW PvP any better.

flyinhigh · Nov 13, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

I will never play any product by Anet/Ncsoft ever again, they have atrocious security and even worse customer support. it is quite easy to roll back chars to a previous state after a hack cuased by terrible client/master account security. F!ck the koreans.

Nerel · Nov 13, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Considering there is no way in pve to earn balth faction or reward points the zkey/zchest has to be categorized as a pvp mechanic.

Zaishen Elite, PvP without one of the Ps... Player vs static AI is the realm of PvE, a one time popular 'farm' when zkeys were new.

Maker of the fallen · Nov 13, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Zaishen Elite, PvP without one of the Ps... Player vs static AI is the realm of PvE, a one time popular 'farm' when zkeys were new.

However you can't bring heroes into it.
If you try to it says
Heroes cannot be brought into PvP (or something along those lines)

So technically it's PvP.

Nerel · Nov 13, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maker of the fallen

However you can't bring heroes into it.
If you try to it says
Heroes cannot be brought into PvP (or something along those lines)

So technically it's PvP.

You can't NOW. But you can solo farm it, just as you always could... and for being technical, Player Versus Player... where is the other player? Player versus AI controlled opponents is what passes for PvP nowdays? Or does PvP mean something else?

Edit: From the official Guild Wars Wiki.

"Player versus Environment (PvE) refers to gameplay in which players compete against computer-controlled opponents, rather than the human-controlled opponents one finds in Player versus Player (PvP)."

Yes, that does describe Zaishen Elite quite accurately.

Akaraxle · Nov 13, 2009, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Gaile Gray at one time was representing pvp as well as pve. However back in those days she was getting verbally destroyed by pvp'rs not really here but sites like TGH where they roasted her with reckless abandon until she couldn't deal with it anymore. There has been unfortunate mishaps on the part of the player community that contributed to the ongoing problems in pvp as well as on the part of Anet. The community is not blameless.

That's because SHE DIDN'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT PVP, and this transcends the matter of whether she was or wasn't a good CR.

And let's not even talk about Andrew Patrick... the community will never, NEVER forget the time he claimed that at VoD, against Melandru dervs and old splinter weapon, you could simply heal up the NPCs if you weren't bad. That proved the guy had not only never played, but not even observed a GvG match.

What made the PvP community really mad is that we've plainly been made fun of.

Quote:

So the top secret balance forums, Izzy in IRC all the time, and top pvp'rs invited over and over again for balance input is no player representation? There has been plenty of representation but the 64,000 dollar question is why has it borne no fruit?

Your 64,000 dollar question has a 64 cents answer:

They don't listen.

JR · Nov 13, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Gaile Gray at one time was representing pvp as well as pve.

To rephrase that slightly: She was at one point supposed to be representing the PvP community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

However back in those days she was getting verbally destroyed by pvp'rs not really here but sites like TGH where they roasted her with reckless abandon until she couldn't deal with it anymore. There has been unfortunate mishaps on the part of the player community that contributed to the ongoing problems in pvp as well as on the part of Anet. The community is not blameless.

This I would agree with. I usually tried to be reasonable and constructive with my criticism, but there were many who took it too far. As for where the finger points, that's a chicken and egg scenario that is still impacting relations today: Was communication so poor because the PvP crowd were a bunch of jaded asshats, or was the PvP community a bunch of jaded asshats because communication was so poor?

For reference and a bit of history, here's a post I made back in March '06. Excuse the sloppy writing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

So the top secret balance forums, Izzy in IRC all the time, and top pvp'rs invited over and over again for balance input is no player representation? There has been plenty of representation but the 64,000 dollar question is why has it borne no fruit?

Izzy hasn't regularly been on IRC in a long time, largely due to the fact that there is no community to be found there anymore.

The 'secret balance forum' was a great step by Izzy toward getting better feedback and improving signal/noise ratio. For a designer to go out of their way to set that up with the goal of improving his output is commendable. That said, he's not in the community field, and it certainly shows. The end result of having the balance forum hasn't been a great deal better than not having it at all.

Quite simply, we need a community manager with PvP smarts who makes the effort to evaluate feedback and push for the right changes (and this has been needed for five years). It seems like asking a lot of ArenaNet, but it really shouldn't be such a stretch.

Back on topic: I am absolutely going to play GW2, because I am certain it will be a great game. Whether or not it will be a fantastic PvP game is yet to be seen, and partly relies on the above.

Nereyda Shoaal · Nov 13, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

(...) There are European servers in Guild Wars

Oh I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge
Can you actually tell me where those European servers are?

mcsumo · Nov 13, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

I want to make it clear from the start that I have been severely disappointed with their service in the past. After the BMP lie, I said I wouldn't buy GW2 and even quit GW for a while and tried other games. Without going into details, compared to GW they were all shit. Horrible grindfests, no story to draw you in, ugly ugly ugly etc etc. So I came back and now look forward to GW2 coming out.

I find it quite interesting that so many people who have replied to this thread, obviously haven't checked out all the information on GW2Guru. http://www.guildwars2guru.com/

If you follow interviews they have done, it seems they are aware of the problems they caused themselves in PvP. Having said that GW is still the best PvP you can find....and it seems they are gonna make it better!

The PvE side of things all sounds quite exciting too, so many concerns seem like they will be addressed.

For those saying that their support now is an indication of the support level to expect for GW2.... well sorry that is just gross stupidity. We have a handful of devs left maintaining GW1. The team working on GW2 is much larger and also much larger than when Prophecies was first out and Factions was being developed. We can expect support levels superior to any we have experienced before. Plus the change of direction with micro transactions and paid for expansion content, means they will have far more funds available and far fewer fires to put out.

Most people, in fact nearly everyone who isn't moaning just for the sake of it, agree that NF and then EotN were where GW really started to go wrong. This was largely down to the fact that NF and Factions and Prophecies, had to work as stand alone games. Duplicate skills, power creep and imba builds all sprang from this point, which Anet couldn't redress no matter how hard they tried. That problem will not exist in GW2.

Abedeus · Nov 13, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Oh I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge
Can you actually tell me where those European servers are?

From what I've heard, some are in Germany. I don't know where the rest of them is. Probably France, English and some in Russia.

But it's easy to check, take a language with a district, and the server will be as close to the native area as possible. That's why I get the best ping playing in Polish channels and the worst on American servers.

When you zone, the game chooses the optimal server location for your team or all teams. It was nicely explained here:

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Server

So if there is a team from America and a team from Europe (in championships, for instance) the game will choose the best territory for both groups. Might be even a Taiwan server, if it happens so.

Nereyda Shoaal · Nov 13, 2009, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

(...)

Funny this. Last time I was in Polish district in Kadaman the server was in Texas. Although I'm way closer to Poland than US&A
I'll try again when I get home

Daesu · Nov 13, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

For those saying that their support now is an indication of the support level to expect for GW2.... well sorry that is just gross stupidity. We have a handful of devs left maintaining GW1. The team working on GW2 is much larger and also much larger than when Prophecies was first out and Factions was being developed. We can expect support levels superior to any we have experienced before. Plus the change of direction with micro transactions and paid for expansion content, means they will have far more funds available and far fewer fires to put out.

It is just very short sighted to think that the entire company would be dedicated to solely support GW2 release 1 forever and ever and not have any resources for their next release. They have to continue to earn money afterall unless you think their online store has enough revenue to sustain the entire company without them making another new release.

Factions development was delayed and ANet considered that a mistake so much so that they had to apologize to the community and give out a FREE content update in the form of Sorrow Furnace. That was how Sorrow Furnace came about. Does ANet intend to follow that pattern, which they classified as their fault, otherwise they wouldnt have apologized? I doubt it.

Second, ANet only had prophecies then and they were in business for only less than a year meaning that they have to establish themselves, so they were a lot nicer. I have yet to see another Sorrow Furnace type content update since then, throughout the history of GW1.

Abedeus · Nov 13, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereida Shoal

Funny this. Last time I was in Polish district in Kadaman the server was in Texas. Although I'm way closer to Poland than US&A
I'll try again when I get home

No idea why. I simply check the pings, they don't lie. Ever. Especially with the low 50-90ms. Even English servers have 2 or 3 times higher ping.

Riot Narita · Nov 13, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is just very short sighted to think that the entire company would be dedicated to solely support GW2 release 1 forever and ever and not have any resources for their next release.

Yes, it is... but it's also unreasonable to think that they will go to the opposite extreme (throw everything into the next expansion or GW3, and let GW2 rot from day 1 with a skeleton support team).

Daesu · Nov 13, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

Yes, it is... but it's also unreasonable to think that they will go to the opposite extreme (throw everything into the next expansion or GW3, and let GW2 rot from day 1 with a skeleton support team).

What opposite extreme? It is the CURRENT priority for resource allocation between current game support and future release. Most of their staff are working on the next release while a small number of them maintain the current release. It IS already happening NOW.

Are most players happy with the current level of support? From this thread, the answer seems to be yes, so is it too much of a stretch to think that the same resource allocation would remain unchange going forward?

mcsumo · Nov 13, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Daesu if you are going to quote me, at least read what I have said. I did not suggest 'the entire company' will be GW2 support. I merely pointed out that the development team NOW, is much larger than the teams of prophecies and factions COMBINED were THEN.

It is extremely narrow minded to continually naysay everyone elses view based purely on your own suspicions. The business model has evolved. There will be no standalone games being 'bolted on' as expansions, there will be paid content and microtransactions from the start. Expansions will be a continuation of the original release, therefore the original needs to be in full working order and have happy players if they want any further sales.

Actually read what others say and check out some real information, before you say anymore. I can't be the only one who is fed up with you spouting what you THINK as though it is the only possible way things can be.

Riot Narita · Nov 13, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

What opposite extreme? It is the CURRENT priority for resource allocation between current game support and future release.

GW2 is not here NOW. Completely different situation. Really, REALLY dumb to think that ANet will continue in the same fashion immediately after GW2 release. Far more likely they will do as they did with GW1 - divide resources between support and new development... but not all into one or the other.

Daesu · Nov 13, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

It is extremely narrow minded to continually naysay everyone elses view based purely on your own suspicions.

Am I not entitled to post my own opinions even though I disagree with you. And by the way, your opinion is not shared by everyone either.

Quote:

The business model has evolved. There will be no standalone games being 'bolted on' as expansions, there will be paid content and microtransactions from the start. Expansions will be a continuation of the original release, therefore the original needs to be in full working order and have happy players if they want any further sales.

Which is why they still have a small number of staff maintaining the current game, which I repeat, most players seem to be satisfied with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

GW2 is not here NOW. Completely different situation. Really, REALLY dumb to think that ANet will continue in the same fashion immediately after GW2 release. Far more likely they will do as they did with GW1 - divide resources between support and new development... but not all into one or the other.

It is really dumb optimistic fanboy-ism to think that GW2 would bring us back to Prophecies level of support that we enjoyed 4.5 years ago or better.

And yes, they will divide resources based on the most recent level of support which most users are satisifed with.

Abedeus · Nov 13, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

The business model has evolved.

Evolution means that something changed slowly for the better.

It was either devolution or derevolution, if you consider the time between Nightfall and EotN "long".

Riot Narita · Nov 13, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is really dumb optimistic fanboy-ism to think that GW2 would bring us back to Prophecies level of support that we enjoyed 4.5 years ago or better.

No, it's a reasonable expectation - based on what they've done in the past in a similar situation.

You are basing your expectations on a completely different situation: GW1 nearing the end of a long and successful life, and GW2 not delivered yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And yes, they will divide resources based on the most recent level of support which most users are satisifed with.

No. They will divide resources based on what they deem appropriate. And no business is going to deem it appropriate to all-but-abandon support for a new product, right after release.